tv The Dylan Ratigan Show MSNBC September 22, 2010 4:00pm-5:00pm EDT
but if i can re-learn to get through my workday without cigarettes, - man: easy. - i can re-learn anything without cigarettes. announcer: re-learn life without cigarettes, free, at becomeanex.org. a new way to think about quitting. good afternoon to you, i'm dylan ratigan. folks shall as they say, summer is over. larry summers heading back to harvard after two years as the architect of the president's economic policies n my view, the damage now done, the coverup complete and the aftermath somebody else's problem, if you know what i'm saying. all right president find someone who works for the people, not the banksteres? time will tell. plus, obama's war. a new book revealing a stark contrast between the president's public confidence in his plan for afghanistan and private doubt about the mission.
why didn't he trust his gut and should he be expressing his skepticism while his own soldiers are dying in the field? also, day three of our series on job wars our look he at the fight against and for real job growth in america. today, finding work using 140 characters or less, i twitter to land you a new job. the show starts right now. well, and then there was one with. treasury secretary tim geithner, the last man standing in president obama's economic team. and his days may be numbered as well. chief white house economic adviser, larry summers, as you probably heard by now, leaving the administration at the end of the year, headed back to harvard, presumably to teach students how to steal a bunch of money and cover it up and go back to your job. others decided to flee washington before everyone
realizes the true mess that exists in this country. let's examine larry's legacy, shall we? too big to fail, more or less permanent. argue create certainty, more bailouts, these come from the feds, wouldn't have to vote on it, wouldn't be so icky as having to go to public and ask for money. definitely keep the cops, the rating agencies specifically working for the bankers who pay them to create the aaa ratings that may or may not be true. how else are you going to sell that to a pension fund? of course, the ability to access, one way or the other, other people's money and use it, well, for yourself, not to mention the giving of trillions more to fannie and freddie to cover up all the bad mortgages they bought from, well, you know, the big banks much the legacy, in short, making sure washington in my view, keeps working for a modern-day wall street that no longer drives money into our country but profits by taking money out, using leverage and the too big to fail structure. oh, of course, who helped make
all this possible long ago? despite repeated objections by other economic experts, well, larry summers. >> i walk into brooksly's office one day the blood is drained from her face. she is hanging up the telephone. she says to me, that was larry summers. he says you're going to cause the worst financial crisis since the end of world war ii, that he has -- my memory is 13 bankers in his office who have informed him of this. stop right away. no more. >> so you know my point of view. but let's get one from someone who knows the inner workings of the obama white house, not just larry summers, but that entire bailout period. the president's former car czar steven ratner is out with a new book about his stint on pennsylvania avenue, called "overhaul." also along, barry riddle, ceo and equity research director at
fusion iq and one of the more vocal summers' critics out there. nice to see you both. obviously, you know my point of view, steve. how would you either correct my narrative and/or what would you add or offer up in your insight as to how and why decisions were made the past few years the way they were? >> i'm sure we don't have time to get to the bottom of this i have a different view of larry. i have known larry for 15 years. i think he is an extraordinary economist, extraordinary civil servant and extraordinary individual, instrumental in saving our economy, not destroying it. >> and when you look at the decision to perpetuate the system that failed us in 2008, why was it better, in your view to make the decision to basically drive the money in perpetuate the system, basically ask for no strings attached in that process in terms of reform, as opposed to taking that moment to reform the system? >> well, i'm not sure which piece of it you're specifically referring to. >> giant banks and leverage and the ability to take pension fund
money, secure advertise it, sell it out under aaa and then bet it would decline in a credit default swap arrangement that gets paid off by the government? >> first of all, the broad outlines of our financial system i think are one of our great asset he is. the ability to have capital markets where you can function, raise capital where the markets are efficient are great. obviously it got completely out of control. nobody is going to disagree with that but the new accords just agreed to for bank reserves i think will curve a lot of the abuses. i think the administration sees this clearly not just for larry summers or president obama, you have congress you have to deal with which is intensely parochial and would block real reform. a lot of the basic reforms like merging the s.e.c. and cftc, congress would not allow and you have the international community. this is a global market and we cannot act unilaterally anymore. >> barry, do you agree with that? >> in part. i wish steve wasn't the car czar, i wish he was the bank czar. >> he did run a bank at one point and one that was actually not too big to fail and actually rather successful.
>> if we would have treated the banks in a similar fashion to the automakers, acknowledge that insolvency, put them into a prepackaged bankruptcy structuring, wipe out the bids, ed, wipe out the shareholders, really punish the bondholders and fire senior management and start all over, the way sweden did, it would have been more painful for that period but we would have had a higher-functioning finance system that was actually working instead of just limping along with the broken wing the way we are today. >> why did it appear, am at least from where we were sitting very different from what you had to do and what we saw happen? >> i agree with barry and implicitly with you conceptually, completely. it is exactly what should have happened. unfortunately, we did not a systemic risk resolution mechanism in place to make that happen. the difference between the car companies and the financial issome something called counterparties, i'm sure you have spoke an lot b. >> sure. >> he didn't have counterparties in the car companies we would put them through bankruptcy, wipe out the shareholders --
>> i want interrupt for one second. when do you that you're doing it with the car companies, you didn't inherently disrupt this huge chain of other businesses. >> well, you did, though you disrupt the suppliers and the employers and all the local businesses. it's not as explicit a computer transaction where this dollar is owed to that person and this stock is owed to that person. but there is a massive infrastructure that goes into it is not just the car manufacturers, it is the car dealers and the leaseholders and financers of the cars, not parallel but lots and lots of similarities. >> remember that we did keep the suppliers whole. we did cut some dealers, the rest were made healthier jerk help suppliers so we actually did cushion the effect. but i don't think you can compare, barry, although i think you and i agree on most of this compare the auto web with the interests and trillions of dollars and millions and millions of counterparties that existed in the financial st. i read in the paper today, lehman
brother also something like 1.4 million transactions that have to be unwound? >> i don't want to talk too much about last year's fishing season because we have a country that doesn't have jobs right now and we need a healthy economy going forward. let's talk about that if you were to be advising either political party, i don't care how you look at it you are the czar of job creation, you are the job czar what would you advocate from a political standpoint or a policy standpoint, i should say, be done now? . >> we are at tough place on jobsed people that throw out back of the hand solutions are talking through their. what unfortunately there is no simple answer here. we have to work our way through this we have to allow growth to continue. we have to keep the federal reserve policy accommodating. i believe that the stimulus played a big role in preventing a much worse economic melt down than what we had. and i think we have to stay the course. >> two things occur to me there one with, china has its currency
pegged relative to our currency, as you know there is a strong case or many make the case, i'm one of them that letting that currency float would have a meaningful alteration in the flow of capital in this country, a lot of u.s. multinationals long china that wouldn't like that but do you view the currency as a relevant aspect of job creation in this country? i will leave it at that? >> i view the currency as a relevant aspect and i don't like the fact they manage their currency any better than you do. what you have to understand, the problem with china is not their currency -- >> i understand that. >> their policies that is up to them. they can change them or not as they see fit. >> are you surprised though that the united states has tolerated so much from china in the which of relative abuse and trade policy, not just on currency but otherwise, not just on this administration but a number of administrations? >> well, if i owed you $10 million, i think i would tolerate a lot of abuse on your part. my point is that the chinese own so much of our debt dhaet we are in effect, a prisoner, to some
degree to them. >> i disagree with that in that we are a dmert our own currency and we are too big to fail for china. in other words, what is china to do when we do the default? what are they -- or when we print more money, as we have been? >> there's definitely a mutually assured destruction aspect to this we don't want china to stop buying our bonds and don't want china to start dumping our bonds on the market. >> pleasure to talk to you. barry, steve ratner, former car czar, former boss, barry, thank you. coming up here "the dylan ratigan show," does president obama really believe in the war in afghanistan? new book revealing his private doubts about the strategy, doubts that didn't stop him from eventually tripling the number of troops on the ground as 2010, now the deadliest year since the war began, but the president's not really sure if we should be doing it. we are back after this. replant a forest? maybe you want to rebuild homes for those in need?
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how's it work? ok, she's gas. he's constipation... why am i constipation? ...he's diarrhea. and our special fiber helps our probiotics so that you can show those symptoms who's in charge. this isn't even my floor. [ elevator bell dings ] the review has allowed me to ask the hard questions. and given the stakes involved, i owed the american people and our troops no less. this review is now complete. and as commander in chief, i have determined that it is in our vital national interest to send an additional 30,000 u.s. troops to afghanistan. . >> well, the president, in his convincing message to west point cadets who will risk their lives on behalf of our country in afghanistan last year but
according to a new book, behind the scenes, the president was looking for anyway out of the afghan war. curious, no? we are breaking it down here. the president repeatedly pressed his top military advisers and white house team, apparently, for an exit plan but ultimately settled on a compromise in which he sent 30,000 additional troops to the battlefield, interesting exit strategy, no? the storyline from "obama's wars" by bob woodward. do keep in mind since the president was in office, the number of total u.s. boots on the ground in afghanistan has nearly tripled. now, here is what confuses me the most. isn't the president of the united states our commander in chief? isn't it ultimately his decision as to when he wants to put our soldiers and american families' lives at risk on behalf of this country? and if his gut was right, why does it seem he bowed to those around him? even more offensive, or equally so why would any sitting
president let someone publish a book revealing his skepticism in the middle of a hot war in which american troops are currently being killed under his command? joining us now matt ho, director of the afghanistan study group and former state department official. your views on this book, matt? >> one echo, what you just said, dylan. since that clip of president obama last december 1st we have had 372 american service members killed in afghanistan and thousands more wounded, both physically as well as mental wounds. you can't see and they are certainly affecting them and their families. the fact the president is skeptical, wasn't sure about it whose advisers clearly failed him. he has come ton assessment n a "new york times" article today, general luke, president bush's
adviser in afghanistan and iraq says, hey, your decision doesn't add up, make sense from what you have seen in this assessment. the fact that his vi advisers couldn't provide him with a plan that matched up with his estimate is deeply troubling. these articles today seem to suggest that the president actually came up with his own policy because he was in such disagreement with what the pentagon kept pushing to on him. the conversation the exact context you described, soldiers who are dead, families who have lost their sop, families who have lost their daughters, in a hot war run by a president who is not sure if he really wants to be there. the white house says the following, matt, they say that the infighting covered in the book has already been talked about publicly, that it isn't anything new and that it actually proves how exhaustive the president's review process was. you buy it? >> no, not at all.
and what i'm concerned about, too, you see how this policy was formed, how this decision was made to send more troops to afghanistan, to further, you know, get ourselves entangled into a civil war that's none of our concern. and the fact that we have got 100,000 troops there that we are spending $100 billion a year. if general petraeus, if his -- if his recommendations bear out and we stay there for nine or ten more years, you are talking about a $1 trillion recommendation. and it doesn't affect al qaeda whatsoever. the -- what is of concern to us, our vital interests, like one of these articles today say about a nuclear strike on the united states, it doesn't appear that having 100,000 troops, spending $100 billion a year in afghanistan is actually going to deter that type of attack. so, it is deeply troubling that this was how the decision process was to reach a decision. the fact that the president seemed to be so ill-served by
his adviser. this past week, in both "the wall street journal" and the "washington post," reports coming out of the administration now for the december view by general petraeus from the war to not expect any changes this would basically be a rubber stamp to not expect any debate. and certainly myself and the other members of the afghanistan study group as well as certainly a wide variety of defense and foreign policy experts feel that's completely wrong and that this december, there should be an honest and real debate on the war, particularly as looking at this report from bob woodward, it doesn't seem like there was much -- that the on toss given to the president were exhaastive or thorough whatsoever. >> give me your best guess or your best insight as to why those who are still hawkish on afghanistan are. >> you know exwith the military, they want to win. >> win what? >> win -- take the next valley. defeat your enemy. stabilize it so that no one rises up against with you a
rifle anymore, which in this kind of warfare is just not possible, particularly when you don't understand the root causes of the conflict, particularly when those legitimate political grievances that many members of the insurgency have are not addressed. and that has nothing to do with transnational groups like al qaeda. i think for folk to hold onto this, stay there nine or ten years, it is this devotion to this war that they believe in. i don't understand it, but we certainly have people here in the united states that want to be part of a decades along war that want to be part of a clash of cultures or a clash of civilizations and then other aspects too, thereth is big money, dylan. you know that you knee pro-war community, pro-development community, fear inc., as it is called, make a lot of money off this war and it's -- so that certainly can't be pushed to the side either. >> yeah. yeah. well, matt, i hope through the
efforts and those like you and those that watch this program and my efforts and anybody else's we can end this war and begin the actual process of securing this country and investing in this country and not indulging the fear amongers and the yippee kiyay crowd by shooting people they don't know halfway around the world. matt, a pleasure. >> real quick, dylan. >> yeah. it goes back to those lance corporals and specialists in afghanistan right now them deserve much better leadership than what is being shown here in terms of their leadership in washington, d.c. >> i wish we could say that to every single american in this country today because i think it is a humiliation for this country to have a president with a hot war, active soldiers and portrayed and allowing himself to be portrayed with this level of skepticism. my heart goes out to the families of those whose children are involved with this. thank you, as always. >> thank you. after the break here, we will have more on what bob woodward's book reveals about the way this white house does business.
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all right. welcome back. how are you nice to see you time to see the headlines, infighting on the war, the new book and push to sell health care as a key part of the law has gone into effect. first, washington, of course, abuzz about the obama's wars books or obama's wars, the book, about the president's afghan war strategy, how divided the white housesome the president, of course, stuck in woodward's portrayal of biden's warnings of another vietnam and the pentagon's rerentless push for an escalation. poll takes times turning personal with national security
adviser jim jones calling obama's aides, water bugs. i can think of better insults than that general david petraeus calling david axelrod a complete spin doctor. good fodder for the beltway gossip mill. what does it say about how this white house made and continues to make each day a life or death decision that affects thousands of u.s. men and women currently whose lives are at risk in afghanistan on behalf of this president? joining us to mix it up, "washington post" editorial writer jonathan cape part and editorial page editor for the washington examiner. obviously, mark tapscott, no more critical a decision the president will make than to put the soldiers of his or her country at risk. are you -- how do you view the most recent events? >> well, i think that is obviously the most important decision a president can make. and president obama came into office with that decision having been made for him by president bush. and face the question for
himself and his administration, do we reverse it? he had all but said that he would reverse it before he was elected. once we got into office we began to see paralysis by analysis and that's continued to this day. there has been a decision to stay, a modest increase in troops but we still have the paralysis by analysis that is characteristic of people who are not sure that they are doing the right thing. >> jonathan? >> look, when president bush was trying to figure out if he was going to do the surge in iraq he took as much if not more time, than president obama did with the afghanistan strategy. the interesting thing here, dylan, i think, here what we are seeing is the back and forth between all these people to come with a poll sit president can then present to the american people. these are the sorts of conversations that happen out of the public view. is anyone surprised that there's infighting, that there are
arguments that there are people? not everyone is, you know, all in line -- >> i understand that. >> any decision. >> i understand that. >> so, for the white house to say, you know this stuff has been public before, everyone knows this, yes, that's true. when bob woodward gets involved and he has the conversations he has and has the access to thes he has, we get a fuller picture and it is not pretty but we are talking about war and wars. >> the vietnam books weren't done -- weren't written white war was active and american soldiers were being killed. why, mark tapscott works you let bob woodward in in the middle of a hot war that go on for years further, you want to recruit for your army, lead troops and have espirit decorps and say we don't want to be there but i hope you don't get killed? >> every president since watergate had to make that decision what in the world are we going to do with bob woodward? he wants to write a book about us. >> that is a good question.
>> speak as a fellow journalist, a i'll glad every one of them granted him an extraordinary amount of access. i don't think he has gotten everything right on every point but certainly provided in his books he tremendously valuable insight into the inner workings of six administrations now. >> your thoughts on that. go ahead, jonathan. on woodward? >> i can't believe. i agree with mark. you know, it's true -- the key thing here is my colleague bob woodward it is great to have this realtime analysis, realtime storytelling. it gums up the works. >> if i'm obama, why would i have a book written about my policy decisions in an active state of war? >> you will work with him our don't, he will do the book. let's pick another subject. six weeks away from the november midterm, six moments after the passage of his signature health care legislation, another cute moment brought to us by the white house, the president surrounded by ordinary folks in
a virginia backyard looking to convince an normally skeptical public that the law is a good thing. >> we are now actually able to provide some help to the american people. essentially, part of the -- part of the affordable care act that we could implement right now and will take effect, is it today or tomorrow? tomorrow. the most important patient's bill of rights that we have ever seen in our history. >> go ahead. >> well -- >> the backyard thing, i can't take it, but that is my personal problem. where do you think he stands on this piece of legislation? >> the president has now a record. he has got two years to run on, whether you like it or not. the health care bill, the law, wit administration was hoping would be popular by now isn't and part of the administration's effort to say, hey, look, we did this. >> what is the best sell?
this is heavy handed, that you didn't break up the monopoly? what is their best sell? >> this is the best sell. tomorrow, the pre-existing conditioning it is now -- it is now law. >> here we are again. >> wait one second, mark. >> last week, it was the economy, this week it is the economy and now health care, the president is trying to make the case that his administration has made tough decisions, has made decisions that hopefully move the country forward and gives the democrats who are looking at losses, gives them ammo to push back against the republican/tea party candidates they are facing. >> mark, how is he doing on health care, politically? >> every three weeks, every three weeks now, since it passed, we have had these campaigns to resell the american people and every three weeks, the amount of support for repealing and replacing it with something that makes sense goes up a couple of notches. >> all right. >> he was supposed to have sold this thing before it was passed, not afterwards. >> with that -- that's enough.
>> that's it? >> quickly, very quickly. >> repeal or replace with what? that's the thing much and once people figure out -- once they hear what the what is, i don't know if they will be so gung ho. >> breaking mon no police, creating an active economy. >> what the republicans are saying? >> definitely not. neath remember the democrats by the way. >> true. >> mark, jonathan, a pleasure. the president coming to a backyard near you, soon, i'm sure. still ahead here on the dr show, a dramatic new look inside a country that some say could be the next afghanistan. i hope that doesn't mean just a pointless war where we spend a lot of money and don't really know why we are there but more like what afghanistan was ten years ago, a hot bed for the gathering of those that might want to motivate radical hate. i'm referring to "yemen", a documentary and a lady who made a fine piece of journalism for us. we are going to get the benefit of her reporting in a little bit out of yemen.
plus, send a tweet, get a job. how social media is being used to make connections and find work. it is in today's install n our job wars series. but first, is trouble brewing for new york royal think? a tea party candidate gaining ground on andrew cuomo using some unorthodox campaign ads. cuomo naked in the shower covered with human feces. i kid you not. when life's this hard, graduating can be even harder. but you can help jose and the students in your community make it through by visiting boostup.org.
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welcome back. this political environment if nothing else, you ignore the tea party at your own peril a new quinnipiac poll shows a tea party favorite here in new york, carl pal dean know, gaining ground on attorney general andrew cuomo in new york's governor's race. paladino, once dismissed as too cooky to compete, now simply six
points behind for the new governorship of new york state. paladino gaining ground in spite of or maybe because of his unorthodox campaign tactics. check out this ad that shows cuomo naked in a shower, covered in what appears to be human waste, typical political ad, i suppose. paladino also send out scratch and sniff mailers that literally smell like garbage. his larger point is it is time to clean up state government. at least paladino gets points for original thinking but hopefully his next campaign move involves slightly more pleasant odors. just a thought. just ahead, we will talk to a man who used twitter to find a job. your next career could be just 140 characters away. we will talk about it next in today's installment of job wars, right after this. [ male announcer ] this is steven, a busy man.
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welcome back to developing news at the dr show. we can report this afternoon that senate democrats are crafting yet another new jobs bill that they say could come up for a vote next week. their goals they say is to give u.s. businesses incentives to create jobs here and stop moving them overseas. no word on whether that would include engaging china on their views of domestic trade policies and their currency reading. i suspect not. one of the provisions they are planning though is payroll tax relief and that is a good idea. on the flip side there will be some disincentives, they say, for offshoring, like barring any
deductions or credits for firms that cut back operation notice u.s. and expand elsewhere in the world. we will keep it covered as it comes down the line, but they are going to take another crack at jobs it sounds like. speaking of which in today's job wars, using social media to find work while our government takes money from special interests to, well, keep their jobs, even if it costs you yours. if you're one of the millions of americans energy fact who has lost their job as our government has work on behalf of those who profit from you losing your job, tweet my jobs.com might be a place you can find a promising league or a new gig. its mission to connect employers with millions of job seekers in the twitterverse. one of the job see who lucked out using the free site is bob smith, now employed and hard at work for a medical devicemaker. bob joins us now. also with us, gary zakowsi, founder of tweet my jobs. bob, i will begin with you. how did you get a job? >> well, gary's website. thank you, gary. >> yeah.
>> thank you, gary. >> you are welcome. >> tell us how it worked. >> very fortunate. >> how did you find out about it? how did you use it? how did you end up with a job? >> our hr consultant had posted the listing online at tweet my jobs.com and i responded to the ad and began the interview process. >> gary, how does this work? is this like a classified listings that are sent out by way of twitter, effectively? >> well, that's the foundation. basically, we take corporate openings and our model is to take all of the company's openings and distributed them on social media, twitter, facebook and linkedin and target individual job sees by the way of instant messaging notification. >> let's use my tv show as an example it is going well, we are experiencing success, we are hiring some producers. how would we use tweet my jobs
to recruit? >> i'm sure nbc and msnbc is active in social media and social media, in general is becoming more and more of a game changer and one of those disruptive technologies to get their brand out and in front of consumers. so, what you would do with tweet my jobs, get a feed of the jobs, what type of job they are where they are located and literally tweet the exact individuals in those jobs for those positions. >> and bob, how did you find out about this? and what were your -- what was your thought on using this as part of your job search when you first heard of it? >> it is a very unique and creative tool. anything you can leverage to help your job search, use it so i appreciate the technology. it is not where i was when i first started out of school 20 years ago, mail in resume, blind
copy to someone this is the electronic age. you have to be ahead of the pack to compete. new technology, new ways of doing things. >> and what kind of a job is it? tell us what kind of a job you ended up with, bob. >> i work for hamanetics, we are a medical device manager, i'm equipment process engineer for a medical device. we make the tag analyzer, which is used to measure the clots that transfer blood during transplants. the device we make has an immediate impact, dramatic impact on quality of life for patients. >> and what kind of success -- are you able to track the success, gary in this? in other words, are people getting jobs through tweet my jobs? how many bobs are there out there? >> there is a lot of them. obviously, we don't handle the hiring of the actual individual, just like, you know, any other job board doesn't but we do have tremendous feedback from our client base and we signed on, you know, many brand name or
household name companies like starbucks and mcdonald's and fedex and sears and kmart, but what we heard back from them, they have hired people at all levels of the organization, you know, a lot of people think that social media is made for teenagers and they are just hanging out, talking about what they are doing tonight, but we have had some companies tell us that they have hired, you know, vps and director-level positions, you know, all the way, you know, down to entry level positions, so, tremendous success. >> and bob, give us a little bit of context, of your experience when you were unemployed and the contrast when you saw this pathway back to employment. >> for me, it was an opportunity to leverage the technology. i tried traditional means it is important to stay upbeat, to be aggressive, to use every strategy that you can to find that next opportunity.
so for me, gary's website was invaluable. prufrnlts discouraged at all in the processes of the job search? >> oh, of course. it was serendipity. the company found me, i found the company. my abortion the people i work with great people. >> and last, two you, gary, what's next for tweet my jobs? >> we are doing cool things with tweet my jobs. social media has opportunities for innovation, the advent of smart phones, everyone seems to be having smart phones, really pushing that technology and trying to reach the mobile workforce which is really where passive job see want to track are hanging out. we have really pushed the envelope with twitter, doing more with face become and linkedin as well. we want to become sort of the number one online job resource
for job seekers. and one of the big differentiators we have is the fact that we can instantly notify job seekers within ten seconds of a job being posted it really gives those job see looking for work a leg up on getting their application in there getting their resume submitted and might make the difference between getting an interview or not. >> if they wanted to follow you on twitter, so they got the heads a up what is the handle? >> twitter, we have over 9500 twitter account which is represent our vertical channels but go to tweet my jobs .com and register free of jobs for job seekers, we will tweet your resume out for you. you can subscribe to job channels and do a lot of things as a job seeker. tweet my jobs .com is a site, you know, our main twitter account is at tweet my jobs and you get a a lot of career advice through that, a lot of information about the company. but you know it all starts at tweet my jobs.com. >> a victorious day in the job wars. you guys made me feel good today and i thank you for sharing it
thank you, bob, congratulations. gary, as well, thank you very much. gary got himself a job finding other people jobs. not a bad job. thank you. we would like to hear from you as well on the frontlines of these job wars that are ongoing in this country. go to our page. there is a tab on our facebook page, facebook.com/dylan msnbc. share your thoughts, share your tips, your solutions, your stories, help us build a community of people who want to help get america become to work as an act of survival, day to day and an opportunity to discuss the structural problems in our government that are taking american jobs away. and a programming note for you, tonight, myself, a few others, in fact, hopping on a plane headed to dallas, texas, where tomorrow, we will broadcast live from one of the largest job fairs in this country. we will talk problems, solutions, we will hear from employers, job seekers, we will also talk about how you can
still affect positive change every day, each day, whether you have work or not. that is live at 4 p.m. eastern time tomorrow, right here on msnbc. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] ever have morning pain slow you down? ♪ introducing bayer am, an extra strength pain reliever with alertness aid, specially formulated to fight morning pain and fatigue.
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a rare look, truly a rare look inside the country many believe may be coming to the battleground in the fight against al qaeda, at the very least, seen as a safe haven for those who are sympathetic to jihadis what ever that may mean. filmmaker laura portrus he shows yemen, osama bin laden's ancestral homeland, as the
setting for her documentary entitled "the oath." her film profiles two men, both connected to bin laden, abu jindal, bin laden's former bodyguard, staffers effectively of bin laden's, who was free in yemen and the man's brother-in-law, salem handan, bin laden's former driver, now imprisoned in guantanamo bay. >> i do not represent the united states. i represent only salon hamdan. >> alleged that mr. hamdan conspired to commit terrorism. >> and here with us with more on the film is laura portrus. what's "the oath"? >> the oath is abu jindal made to osama bin laden in which he ultimately, in the end, betrayed. >> and what is it? >> i mean it was basically a pledge of complete loyalty, i will follow the leadership, no matter what and he broke away
from t. >> why did you go there and do this and how much did you feel that you, yourself, were endangered by being there as a single american citizen, woman no less, in a country that is -- has the reputation this does? >> mm-hmm. well, before this film, i made a fill until iraq about the war in iraq and i think as a document tearian it is a time for us to, you know, record this history and provide more insight for americans to what's happening in the world. in a more detailed way. >> what did you learn what do you believe is portrayed in this film? >> the film follows two men, one is bin laden's bodyguard and running a guesthouse. he is free and driving a taxicab in yemen. >> he is a cabbie in yemen. >> and the other man going on trial at get moment you learn things about interrogation. jindal was integrated aft after 9/11. there was no torture, an fbi agent did this, less than a week after 9/11, yielded extraordinary amount of
information. and now we sort of moved on this path of people about being sent away for years. and the other about the failure of the military commissions at guantanamo so poll he lows the case of hamdan, who was victorious in a supreme court case and then tried before guantanamo and for americans we have had three cases gone before the military commission and military commissions have been struck down repeatedly by the courts. so, the system is not working. >> do you get the sense when you're talking to these men who are so close to bin laden, familiar with the interaction, with our nation, if you will, in terse of our security representation, that they want to kill us that yemen is a place where you go if you want to kill an american? nch>> there are some people in
yemen like that we have gone into afghanistan and iraq and created more people that don't like us that is what is happening in yemen there are dangerous people in yemen, the yemen government should deal with those people. no the u.s. needs to be careful and learn from its mistakes. >> what would you like to see come -- in other words, you would make this investment in this film. you risk be your life, to some degrees, to make this film. what outcome would you like to see yielded from the new information that you're uniquely able to bring into the conversation? >> i mean, i think that the united states is not handling the threat in the smartest way they can and different ways to do things. so for instance, we should be moving away from -- guantanamo is making -- people don't like us because of what we are doing in the world and we need to be smarter about that much and i think the film provides different avenues. >> for instance? >> for instance, abu jindal is
interrogated, done in a way that wasn't -- that you can use that evidence in court because it wasn't done to the use of course methods that some people call torture. >> evidence that alternative torture -- alternative torture? excuse me, alternative interrogation technique, absent torture are more successful than torture-based techniques, for one? do you feel like we understand? when you see the mosque protests, the yeehaw that wants to burp the koran and the president is talking about it and you can feel the blood lust percolating in portions of this country and portions of the muslim world for basically an entirely irrationally, largely insane, totally destructive religious war and you get on the ground and deal with the reality of it, how wide did you feel the gap was between the psychotic religious war that is sought by the fundamentalists in this country and the fundamentalists in the middle east? >> i mean, what i think -- i think there is a failure in leadership in both places. i, obviously, condemn the attacks of 9/11 and other
attacks against the united states and foreigners. >> sure. >> but we need to stop doing things that provoke people in the world. and when we talk about burning korans, i mean this is you know, we are just creating a new generation of people who don't like us and radical ligz. >> do you think that that is understood? in other words, do you think that the president of the united states understand what is you're saying? agrees with it? >> i don't think -- i don't think our leadership has served us well in dealing with this threat in a way that is smart and complicated and can defuse it rather than inflame it. that is top priority. >> a pleasure to meet you. the documentary is called "the oath" and a pleasure to have the opportunity to learn a little bit more about it myself. that is going to do it for us today. i'm dylan ratigan. "hardball" coming up in a second with chris matthews. we will see you tomorrow from dallas, texas, at